IS THERE A NATURAL PROGRESSION OF PERFORMANCE CAR OWNERSHIP?

"RightFootDown" (rightfootdown) 04/14/2014 at 11:28 • Filed to: None

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Lately I've been looking at the Porsche 911 as a possible replacement for my M3. Sounds like a logical move, right? BMW M3 owner moves on to Porsche 911. Nothing we haven't heard before. But why look at the 911 now when I could have looked at them eight years ago instead of buying an NSX, or the Corvette, or the STi, or whatever the hell else I bought? Perhaps there is a natural progression to car buying.

When I turned 16 my dad gave me a $1,000 1985 Mustang GT. It was truly a love-hate relationship with that car. I loved the sound of the 5.0 but hated the dated styling and that dreadful CFI engine. I read so much information on the Fox body Mustangs that my vision had turned Ford Racing blue and next thing you know I bought a 91 5.0. And shortly after I replaced it with what would become my money pit, a 95 GT.

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I definitely spent way too much time on the Corral and StangNet forums reading about engine modifications and suspension upgrades. The weekends were spent hooning around town with friends, detailing the car, or modifying our cars in some way. Working at Ted Britt Ford was a bonus because I got a fantastic discount on Ford Racing parts. It was at the dealership that I met a salesman in his late 20's with a black E36 M3. That car always caught my eye. We would talk shit to one another all the time. It went back and forth until one day he didn't show up to work. I never saw him again and we never raced. I could have taken his M3, right? The mystique of the M3 continued to grow.

After my third Mustang I decided I wanted a change of scenery. My good friend, Dan, had a lightly modded Integra GS-R that I really liked and decided to pick up one of my own. This time, instead of drag racing, the Honda-Tech forums sparked my interest in road racing.

In 2004 I attended my first HPDE with at Beaverun in Pennsylvania as part of the National Prelude Meet. I frequently autocrossed myMustang but there was no comparison to driving on track ad speed. It. Was. A. Blast. Why hadn't I tried this sooner?! I was soon to be obsessed with track driving and in just a few years found myself competing in the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and instructing with local clubs at Summit Point and Virginia International Raceway.

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I only ever owned one car at a time (excluding overlap to sell the previous). Be it an NSX, a full Nismo'd 350Z, bolt-on Corvette, whatever. All were purchased with the intention of daily driving and tracking but I never held on to any of them much longer than a year. I would track them for the season and learn everything I could about their limitations first hand. After a while I always felt like the car I had didn't do, or wasn't capable, of something well enough to pull double duty as my daily driver and weekend track car under my budget.

In November 2011 I bought an E46 M3. It's pretty much been everything I had hoped it would be. Most of my cars never make it long enough to renew registration, so it feels like I've owned this car an eternity.

All of my previous cars have been modified in a some way to enhance the joy of driving. The fact that my M3 remains 99% stock after two years is a testament to BMW's Ultimate Driving Machine. The problem is I have begun to get bored of the M3. It's no longer exciting. I think that is the reason why I have been looking at 911s recently.

Even with 155,000 miles on the odometer, the M3 barely shows it's age. Driving the car is a joy. As my daily driver in the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (Washington, DC), there have been days where the SMG transmission has been a life saver. The E46 M3 has proven to be a marvelous balance of useability and performance. The 3.2 engine has a very flat torque curve which is great for commuting around town and the peak 333 horsepower is more than enough to get anyone into trouble. I will admit a set of headers are sitting in my basement waiting for their day.

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So what's next if I do decide to get rid of the E46 M3? Regret? That's my fear. The natural progression for sports car enthusiasts is to gravitate toward Porsche 911. This seems to be especially true with M3 owners. And where does one go from the Porsche 911? I'd venture to say the Italian market. Today, that would be a used Ferrari F360 or maybe a Lamborghini Gallardo though I think most people draw the line at the Porsche 911.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > RightFootDown 04/14/2014 at 11:38

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So much want. There was a green GT3 RS as our meet-up on Saturday...

Flat Six > RightFootDown 04/14/2014 at 12:01

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I've been wondering the same thing. I haven't had a sports car in > 5 years. If I go straight to a 911, is that cheating? Should I get a E46 or Fiesta or Boxster first?

MykePagan > RightFootDown 04/14/2014 at 12:45

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You can talk about a "standard" car-guy progression of vehicles, but it's going to look different depending on whether you are a JDM otaku, a Bavarian afficianado, a Brit relic, 'Murrican muscle fan, or whatever. Taking up to 50,000 feet, this is what I think I've seen amongst my car buddies:

First stage: Used version of a mainstream model

Example: Mustang 5.0 (NOT Cobra or GT500 or any high end model) for the American guy; any number of older Inegras or Civic R-types for the Japanese guy. 100,000+ mile BMW 328 (not M3) for the German fan...

At this stage the point is that you are young, unmarried, and poor but you want a cool car. So you compromise and get the best you can with your funds. Poor German car fans have to go out and get some obsenely high-mileage model, and they suffer for it in repair costs. You can get away with this kind of car because you have no wife or kids and you can bum a ride to work off of a friend if the vehicle is undriveable occasionally.

Second stage: New version of a car type you like, but it's a bottom-feeder model

Example: Camaro SS for the "Murrican (not a ZL1 or Z28), WRX for the Japanese (not an STi), 1-Series for the German

The car guy is getting established at work and making some more money, possible kept value in the first car so he/she can trade it in. Still too poor to go and get the Real Deal (Corvette, GT-R, M3), but more mature and not willing to live with a deteriorating and probably inadvisably modified used car.

Third stage: Marriage... kids... We backslide into a "practical car"

Example: Too sad to even mention

Fourth stage: Established! Hopefully at this point the car person has risen in the ranks and is making some better money at work. They have established their stability with their spouse and are willing to make a play for another fun car. It can go one of two ways: Dedicated fun car or Do-all fun car.

The dedicated fun car means that they KEEP the practical car, and go all in on a cool car they really want. This may be a dedicated track car, or a fully impractical street car. It is usually only good for two seats. It is often a used version of a truly fantastic model.

Examples: Lotus Exige (Brit guy), Corvette (American), and the best, most classic example: The used 911 for the German guy. This is truly the canonical form of this stage, since we are talking about cars that may have cost $130,000 when new and still cost $50,000+ with some miles on them, but they are still prime ultimate examples of the breed.

The Do-all fun car means something that can act as a daily driver. This makes it a bit of a compromise, but often this is a new car and not a used dream car.

Examples: This is where the Bavarian lover gets his M3; maybe not new, maybe a two-year off-lease vehicle with only 20,000 miles on it (some poor shmoe who overbought back when it was new took the hit). The American guy gets his CTS-V. Japan guy has moved into new Acura, Infiniti, or Lexus terriroty, whatever fast car they have in the mid-career price range.

Okay, that last stage is me. I went with the hybrid plan: Lotus Elise Supercharged and Ford Taurus SHO (because it's weird and more fun than you think).

I do not know what happens next. I'll keep you posted. It may be "insane track-only car plus impractical daily driver because the kids are off at college"

JR1 > RightFootDown 04/14/2014 at 12:48

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I think yes and no is the answer here. It all has to do with what you are interested in. If I would have seen you during the Mustang era I would have predicted you would have graduated to a Shelby. So a drastic change to a Euro car is rather surprising. Conversely I think someone who buys a classic car is bound to own classic cars for the rest of their lives. It all comes down to how open minded you are.

alexotics > RightFootDown 04/14/2014 at 12:50

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Enlightening read. I think you're on to something...

Mine reads a bit like a natural performance car ownership progression:

JEEP (First car, given) > VW GTI (First performance car) > 2 BMW E30s (first rear wheel hooning) > Porsche 911 (996 AeroCup) (first real sports car, first rear engined car)

I'd like to imagine that WAY into the future, a proper GT3 beckons, and perhaps a Ferrari Scud or Lamborghini Superleggera. That's some extreme wishful thinking though.

Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) > MykePagan 04/14/2014 at 13:10

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Whoa, don't use the word Otaku, might want to look up the actual definition.

chuck07 > RightFootDown 04/14/2014 at 13:25

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My progression, started in 2006:

1991 Grand Caravan (gift) > 1992 Grand Marquis > 1996 Accord v6 (gift) > 1986 Mercedes 300SDL > 1981 Fiat Spider (second car) > 1998 Mercedes S320 > 2007 Mustang V6 Convertible

Is there any rhyme or reason? Progressing from what is available and cheap (Grand Caravan, Grand Marquis, Accord) to what I was enthusiastic about 300SDL and then picking up a Spider for fun, then moving to the S320. Eventually moving to something that has some premium features while still being fun to throw around.

I have no clue where I will go from here, but I would re-buy any of those cars in a heartbeat.

RPM esq. > RightFootDown 04/14/2014 at 13:51

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I'm an E46 M3 owner too, and this very morning for part of my commute I was next to a brand new 911, and caught myself thinking similar thoughts—isn't a 911 the logical next step? But like you, I've found my M3 to be everything I wanted it to be. In a way, I think I'm more likely to go "backward" than forward from here—keep the M3, maybe store it in the winter, and add something older, not newer, to the fleet, like an E34 or the like.

BKRM3 > RightFootDown 04/14/2014 at 14:05

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Maybe a silly question...but you've already driven the E90 or E92 M3, right? And you decided you didn't like it before considering a 911, right? My choice last spring was 2007 911 C2S or 2009 E90 M3 and I bet you can guess by my username which one I picked. =) Nothing does double duty like an M3. Of course, I'm ultimately in the same boat as you regarding what's next, but I'm putting off thinking about that for a couple more years at least.

MykePagan > Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) 04/14/2014 at 14:27

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oh, I know the Japanese definition. But like so many foreign words, the American usage means something quite a bit different.

RightFootDown > BKRM3 04/14/2014 at 14:57

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I DD'd an E92 328i 6-speed w/sport package for almost a year before I found my E46 M3. The E90 M3 is a thing of beauty and would definitely be my choice over the E92 now that I have a daughter. While I don't need four doors, I need a back seat, even if it's not adult sized. A clean E90 M3 would be about $35k and with every month's payment I'd be reminded of how I could have been sitting in a 997.

BKRM3 > RightFootDown 04/14/2014 at 15:26

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The back seat is definitely not large, but I had four adult men in my car last week to run some errands during lunch break at the track day and no one really complained. As you know, the trunk space of the E9X sweetens the deal as well. One consideration was definitely that my budget (~$40-45k) got me the exact E90 that I wanted, plus a set of winter tires/wheels. It's hard to find the right 911, and then even harder to find it in your price range. I decided that if it was worth doing at all, I needed the 3.8 in the Carrera S. Then I started comparing creature comforts, including basic modern conveniences. For example, bluetooth requires the installation of aftermarket electronics if you buy a pre-2009 P car, and the 997.2 was way out of my budget. Give me a break, the sticker on the one I almost bought was $94,000...and you can't get bluetooth? And silly me, I thought the 911 came with an LSD right? Nope, but it was an option on the C2S starting in 2009. While I'm constantly aware of the fact that "I could be driving a 911 right now..." (and I see them about 50x a day, so I'm reminded a lot) the end of that sentence is always "...but I'm glad I'm not." Then I downshift theatrically and grin like an idiot. The E90 M3 is in my opinion a better, more practical dual-duty car. All this notwithstanding, if I had a truck, wagon, SUV, whatever and a track day car was going to be #2, I'd be in a real pickle trying to convince myself to keep the M over buying a 997.

Rewind247 > RightFootDown 04/14/2014 at 17:40

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I owned in this progression 93 civic si, benz 560 sl, honda accord, evo mr, titan, evo gsr, honda insight, fd rx7, wrx sti, evo mr, impreza limited, 2011 GT3.

Still have my 93 civic si, impreza limited, and GT3. Out of all the cars I've owned the funniest I remember is my civic. Could just be nostalgia, considering that car hasn't run in 10 years.

Slow4o > RightFootDown 04/15/2014 at 01:59

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I wish I had the ability to make myself get new cars so often, but I have become hopelessly attached to my Mustang so I don't think I will ever get rid of it. But in response to your progression, I found that at the BMWCCA HPDE event I went to, a bunch of the people there had stepped up to P cars from M's. So it would seem like the natural way to go.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > RightFootDown 04/15/2014 at 03:04

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Well, i bought my previous and current car because i like it.

1st car: 1996 Kia Sephia. How you can't like a car with 4 door and massive 120hp mazda engine that was 2000 bucks new?

2nd car: 1996 Mercedes-Benz S600. How you can't like a german saloon with V12? Everybody needs a V12 in their life.

3rd car: 1985 Mazda Cosmo Rotary Turbo Saloon. 4-door rotary turbo powered saloon with pop-up headlight and manual transmission. I'm sold.

4th car: 2008 Mercedes-Benz CLS550. I like the looks of it and the 5.5l V8.

5th car: 2002 Toyota Crown Royal Saloon 3.0 . 2JZ powered 4-door saloon which rides like a rolls-royce. I'm definetly sold.

I've sell the S600 and CLS550, and i miss them. But i need new fun :D

RightFootDown > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 04/15/2014 at 11:45

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What didn't you like about the CLS550?

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 00:30

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I think it's the rear headroom. The rear is wide, but a little bit short, so to use it comfortably you have to be fat and short.

and i like the crown better.

Neo83 > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 14:44

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Thats a very good question.

I have to say that the right car for me is always the car that I am interested in at that moment. Previously I owned a 2010 GT500 and sold it to get into an ultra low mile 2006 CPO Porsche 911 Carrera 997 (fully loaded) back in 2012. Just sold the 911 month ago thinking I would just lay low and drive my 2000 4-Runner (DD) until the new Mustang GT arrived but low and behold, it was my birthday and a low mile 2006 E46 M3 6-speed vert popped up near me. I haven't told most of my porsche buddies for fear of judgment (joking) but seriously I LOVE this car. Sure its no 911 in that complimentary guards red but the engine sound, torque, amenities makes for some great adventure.

Manuél Ferrari > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 21:09

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I went backwards. 911 to M3.

Because the M3 has 4 doors and a big trunk. Still have the 911 though. Couldn't give it up because it's so fun. I do drive the M3 more these days though.

Manuél Ferrari > BKRM3 04/16/2014 at 21:16

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Step 1. Keep E90 M3 forever and save money for second car.

Step 2. Buy F430 Scuderia

Step 3. No more steps. Life is awesome.

driftmeister > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 21:29

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M3 first and then BRZ here.

M3 means Mazda 3 right?

Corey Andrews > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 21:31

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My first car was a 2007 Honda Civic Si coupe. My second car (which I still own) is a 2012 Shelby GT500..... I think I skipped a few steps... I'm still 23...

Andrew Daisuke > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 21:41

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I think as long as you own cars in progressive HP, then you're ok.

Say, first car, <150 whp, second car <250, Third car 250-300, 4th car 300-400, then 500bhp and up.

Gotta put some seat time in to handle the big power cars, .02

Mr. Ligier 812 GTC4Lusso Rubicon Pista > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 21:42

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Cayman S -> Cayman R -> Gallardo LP-560 -> MP4-12C ->Boxster S -> F458 Spider ->911 turbo S -> 918 Spider

But that's just me...

LHturbo > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 21:53

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I don't think its a progression, unless you want a status of sorts. I feel like you should get the car you always want or want to try. I know people who have indeed gone m3 to 911 to f430 (I dont think you ever go 911 to 360 IMO, the 911 is a great car) I also know people who have gone 430 or 458 to new 901 911 Turbo S. I think it really comes down to what you are looking for and what you like. Don't let a progression make your choice for you.

PS. Your car picks through your lifetime are A+ Choices! I approve all of them :)

thesquirrel > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 21:56

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My progression is kind of odd and focused on mid-size sedans, because I like a good reliable sedan. 1992 Honda Civic Si—->1995 Pontiac Grand Am SE—->1997 Cadillac Catera—->2002 Pontiac Bonneville SLE—->2007 Nissan Altima 3.5 SL——>2014 Ford Focus 5-door with handling package. Seems the appeal of a small tossable hatchback with high 30's on the mpg side brought me back to my 2001 years of the Si

newton > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 21:58

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I do know many people who went from BMWs to 911s. It happens often.

Meanwhile VW and Audi guys just play with themselves for an eternity. :P

feather-throttle-not-hair > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 22:05

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All i know is that everyone replaces their 350Z with a C6 corvette on the 350Z forums.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > driftmeister 04/16/2014 at 22:10

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If so, I went M3 -> M3.

Han-Solo > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 22:11

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Similar to myself with slight deviations.

1992 Camaro RS 5.0

1997 Integra GS-R

2002 CLK55 AMG

1997 Carrera S - yes it's great, even after 6 years, it's still great.

Last year; 1931 Ford 5W Coupe, chopped, channeled, flathead V8 = Crazy Fun

Have a '97 4Runner for crappy days and the 911 for fast days.

pr1ck35is > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 22:16

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Started with i4 turbo hot hatches as teen (900 turbo and SPG); detour to 280hp vtech yo (Acura s type), then i6 twin turbo bmw - first awd (and back to Europe, though I miss the Japanese reliability ) and now to a smaller RWD i6 turbo .... Love turbos in small packages and having fun w first RWD... But for dd I kinda miss awd as a compromise between fwd and RWD). My ideal car is clearly an awd 911 turbo, but for a dd my next logical and practical progression is probably a cla 45 in two years when I'm ready to ditch the current fun ride.

AP1M > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 22:27

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LOL where's your NSX "R"?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Mr. Ligier 812 GTC4Lusso Rubicon Pista 04/16/2014 at 22:30

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Can't say I'm not jealous. If you had to choose today, would you 987 or 981 Cayman S?

And what the ETA on your 918?

366848135 > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 22:31

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I, like you, also have an E46 M3 - and i think the only thing i would sell it for is also a Porsche 911. It's just the logical thing to do, not that I could afford to do so any time soon. As for fearing regret? Thats natural. I worried I would regret selling my S14a silvia that I had sunk so much money into. But then I bought an Evo 9 and instantly knew it was the right call. I was terrified of selling the Evo, because i LOVED that car - but I always wanted an M3... so I risked it. Once again - I regret nothing. I think if you want something, you need to take that risk and just do it. You only live once, and most of us will never have the cash to own all our hero cars - so if you need to sell one to tick another one off your list, do it.

thejensen > MykePagan 04/16/2014 at 22:36

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This sounds about right, generally speaking of course... assuming all goes according to plan (We should all be so lucky!).

For my own part, I'm attempting the somewhat rare "nocreation" model. The downside is that you die alone. But then again, we all die alone and this approach enables one to skip stage #3 altogether.

Ideally, never truly knowing the love or understanding the personal sacrifice that is parenting will really pay-off in the form of stage #5... aka Supercar Self-Actualization.

Note: No disrespect intended - Please read the above w. tongue planted firmly in cheek.

... And stop being all jealous ;)

Chris Furia > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 22:41

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I think the progression is largely dependent on how two primary factors: how bad the addiction runs and access to disposable income. For me, the addiction is horrendous and the available disposable income is decent. That said, my progression:

Datsun 240Z>>Honda Civic>>Mazda FC RX7>>Mazda FD RX7>>BMW M Roadster>>Subaru WRX wagon>>Subaru STi>>Mitsu EVO VIII>>Porsche 997 C2S>>Audi A3 (DD)>>Porsche Cayman S(DD)>>Porsche 997.2 GT3>>Audi S4(DD)>>VW Golf R(DD)>>BMW E92 M3(DD).

The GT3 seems to be a reoccurring item on many lists here. I've gone thru about a car a year due to A.D.D. I've owned the GT3 for 2.5 years now and I still absolutely adore it. It has exceeded and continues to exceed my expectations. I never want to sell it. For those who desire one, it is absolutely worth any sacrifice to get it :)

Foo2rama > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 22:52

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I have an e46 M3 and I have no idea what to replace it with. I do not like the e9x, and the price to performance vs the M3 and the 911 makes little sense to be slightly faster on a track and lose the back seat and trunk.

meatatarian > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 22:54

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I went from an E36M3 to a Cayman.... M-car to P-car does feel about right. I'm in the DC area if you want to try it out some time!

thegrover > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 23:10

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Almost 70 years old so here is the long list in short form of progression. 52 Flathead Ford Coupe. 57 Chevy V8. Austin Healey 3000. 64 Corvette 327. 66 Corvette 427. Opel Manta Rally ( won 28 auto crosses with it.) A series of Opels. A series of high performance sport motorcycles. Turbo Volvo. 1984 Honda CRX, 1991 Mazda Miata. And the supreme designed from the ground up as a high performance sports car and what I now drive a 2004 Turbocharged Mazdaspeed Miata.

No over rated VW's for me.

TehRuben > RightFootDown 04/16/2014 at 23:14

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Question - I live in DC, as well. Used to have a GTI, which was fantastic, except for the tires getting shredded every time I went over one of our glorious potholes, dents in the doors, and idiot drivers. How do you deal with owning a car like that in the city (aside from actually paying for parking, etc)? I've always been afraid of having a car that nice in DC.

porschephile463 > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 00:14

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I have given this topic lots of thought as a EVOMS 996 Turbo as my toy now. 700hp is going to be hard to replace. But I think the next logical step from buying your first 911 is to buy another 911.

There is a huge model range to chose from, all wit vastly different qualities and providing different experiences. The turbo cars are the hammers w/AWD and big torque numbers that absolutely dominate in a straight line. Whereas the GT3 cars are more finesse momentum cars like the E46.

If I can swing it I want to get a 912 and engine swap for a 964 engine as my project car/road racer within the next year. Then when the time comes to give up the 996TT in a couple years, I plan to get a 997.1 GT3RS, hopefully a sharkworks modded car. If all goes well with that maybe track down an EVOMS 997.2 TT w/PDK that's pushing +750hp. Then after that go for a RS4.0. That's basically my next 5-10 years planed out.

The other things on my radar is the CLK63 AMG Black. It ticks most of my boxes (big power, ultra rare, & oh and V8 POWERRRR). Also the Aston Vantage/Vanquish if you can trade a bit of track prowess for massive style points. R8 is on there too. And then there is always the GT-R, though I personally don't care for them.

BillyLaotian > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 00:17

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You won't regret it. In 2004 I sold my E36 M3 to buy a 1995 911. In 2009 I bought a Phoenix Yellow E46 M3 as a daily driver companion to the 993. Got bored with it as well and replaced it with a GT3RS. Can't wait to get another M3 just to find out what PorscheI'll end up with when I sell it.

Mikeyee > Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) 04/17/2014 at 01:20

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otaku is fairgame to use for car things. ie: http://www.auto-otaku.com/

Mikeyee > Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) 04/17/2014 at 01:20

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otaku is fairgame to use for car things. ie: http://www.auto-otaku.com/

mikeyee > Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) 04/17/2014 at 01:21

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otaku is fairgame to use for car things. you can thank mike garrett for that: http://www.auto-otaku.com/

WeissGuy > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 02:06

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I started with a 2000 Camry with a slushbox which was totaled the month before I went off to college.

After college bought a (completely trashed) 1983 Datsun 280ZX 5-speed with the last $2,500 of my student loan money when I graduated, I learned how to drive a stickshift, I learned a lot about fixing cars, and drove that for two years, I also briefly had a 1979 Mazda RX-7 during that time but I never got it running well enough to drive :(

Two years ago when the Datsun was on it's last legs, my girlfriend bought me a 1989 BMW 525i 5-speed as a breakup present to drive to California in. (We got back together, and it ended up riding to California in a car transport.)

I honestly really like the 525i, I've spent way more than it's worth fixing it up to the point of being reliable as hell, and I've been tastefully customizing it to where it's starting to look like "my car" instead of a generic white E34.

But maybe when (if, haha) I start making more money. I'd like to get either an E39 540i M-sport, or an E34/E39 M5 which would be the "logical" progression.

Or maybe I'll just keep looking for that mint condition two-tone blue and silver 280ZX turbo.

Or maybe I'll get something completely different. There's so many cool cars, I've always wanted a DeLorean, and sometimes I want a foxbody, or a GTi, or an old Toyota land cruiser or a BMW wagon, or a Porsche 944, or a Mercedes 190E Cosworth.

RosarchII > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 02:18

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GT3, yes, you definitely should.

thejensen > TehRuben 04/17/2014 at 02:19

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Chicago here. Zomfgwtfbbq THIS.

Or, at least this is what I tell myself to keep from turning green every time some amazing car passes by.

Navigating the myriad 12"+ potholes is an exercise in anxiety and anger management even when I'm driving my non-crazy-awesome-and-expensive DD, so how terrified must that asshole must be?!

I suppose somebody's gotta be "that asshole" though.

+Sigh.

gCo987 > Flat Six 04/17/2014 at 02:42

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There's no such thing as cheating. If you can afford a 911 (and actually have the driving skills to use its potential properly and safely), then I say go for it!

If however you want a stepping stone, and don't need 4 seats, I highly recommend stepping into a used Cayman. Easily the best car I've ever owned or driven and in mind is better at everything than a 911 except straight out power (and status, if that's a priority).

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 04/17/2014 at 02:43

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The thing about the Crown is that it tries too hard to imitate a Rolls Royce and in the process, there are so many glaring issues that make the Crown look like a village idiot. It's the cheap interiors.

CodyVella > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 03:44

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The 911, will test everything you've learned about a car's limits. Not that it's particularly fast, but they're incredibly tricky in the corners, especially at the limit.

I can't speak for any of the newer generations, but I did get the opportunity to drive a 930 competitively (an '85 model) and at first, it scared the living crap out of me. There was little room for error.

But great article, was a fantastic read. I also agree with everything you've wrote. Seems I'm on a similar path.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > MykePagan 04/17/2014 at 03:59

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"Brit relic"

Now I like that :) perfect description for me, along with maybe 'Italian Petrolisto'.

I can't really see myself going in for step 2. I'd much rather buy an utterly kickass used classic + maintenence costs than shell out a ton for a new car.

That may be because I don't particularly want any new car that is available for a reasonable price at the moment. I think the F-Type and the Ghibli are the only ones I'd be looking at, and they're on the high end of new car purchases.

By the looks of things, my progression will go like so:

Step 1: Accidentally buy dirt-cheap fixer-uppers for £300 from eBay

Step 2: Purposely buy dirt-cheap fixer-uppers for £500 from eBay

Step 3: Spend a couple of years fixing dirt-cheap cars until they're nice

Step 4: Actually earn enough money to start buying £4000 reasonable nick cars

Step 5: Continue on ad infinitum :)

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 04/17/2014 at 04:09

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Well, it's a shame toyota didn't go full mad and lines the whole interior with wool, century style.

And i think it's not that leather is cheap one either, but surely it's not rolls-royce level of luxury. But still, it's one hell of daily driver, thanks to the plush ride.

And i think when i put twin turbo in it, the crown will goes like rocket!

longlivethepolog40 > MykePagan 04/17/2014 at 04:25

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First Post! Hell Yeah!!

Well, that explains my current situation at 100%

First Stage -> Crappy 1993 1.8l NA VW Golf (It was a gift)

Crappy picture from a Nokia 3310

Second Stage -> Could afford my own car,went to the 1991 VW Polo 1.3l Supercharged G40, because why not drive a coffin to work everyday??

Third Stage ->1997 VW Passat 1.9l 110hp Diesel Manual

Third Stage.1 ->2001 VW Passat Variant 1.9l 130hp Diesel Manual (I didn't even bother taking a picture).

And now going to Stage Four, I'm on the lookout for a Fiat Coupe 20vt.

I think I like VW, but I cant find a VR6 in the price range.

TheNorthernSpeed3 > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 04:38

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My path has gone with some hicups 93 Civic Ex-> 08 Mazdaspeed3 Next WRX STI -> 911 hopefully

Mr. Ligier 812 GTC4Lusso Rubicon Pista > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/17/2014 at 05:28

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987 - I just prefer the styling of the older body style. I don't like the crease at the top of the hips on the new one.

I've asked for a late 918, so Q1/2 of 2015. After some issues I've had with very early editions of a new model, I'll let them sort early problems on other cars first.

FlyingV > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 07:03

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Excellent article. Truthfully, 911s, Ferrari 458s, and Gallardos are all variations on the same theme. You can literally lump M3s and S4s and so on into that category without hyperbole. If you truly want to experience the apex predator of driving enjoyment, you need to adopt a different philosophy - the benefits of low mass. For those who have experienced a Lotus Exige or Radical on the track, there really is no going back.

BKRM3 > Manuél Ferrari 04/17/2014 at 07:16

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Clearly, this is flawless logic.

willkinton247 > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 08:26

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Ted Britt Ford, the sponsor of my favorite morning show in the area, until they replaced it with this annoying Bobby Bones guy

Gizmo44 > MykePagan 04/17/2014 at 08:31

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Thankfully, I jumped straight to the second stage with my WRX. I will own my Corvette soon enough! And then the world is mine!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Mr. Ligier 812 GTC4Lusso Rubicon Pista 04/17/2014 at 08:41

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I'm with you, and it seems something may have been lost in the dynamics of the new one, too.

Just incredible... Congrats.

quarterlifecrisis > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 09:04

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I just saw this, and feel kind of compelled to post because it's a thought that I'm familiar with. I've only owned 4 vehicles, one was a beater in HS, and I currently own 2 of them (#2 and #4).

I got a pickup in HS, which I've kept for the last decade. The being a "truck person" lead me to getting a TrailBlazer SS during my last semester of grad school, which I proceeded to throw money at to make faster...in a straight line. I had it for 22 months and then bought a C6 Corvette in early 2012 when I was 25. A buddy of mine went out for a ride with me and asked "So where do you go from here?" This was a thought I hadn't paid much attention to. I don't want to say I'd peaked early, but, 400hp in a 3200 lb car that gets 30 mpg.... So now I find myself often wondering what's next.

That answer depends a lot on where I end up geographically...but 911s are something I like. So are high performance sports sedans, of the Caddy V variety...I feel like going backwards to something that doesn't have neck snapping power could be kind of weird. Hmmm.

M3BimmerBilly > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 09:14

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What 911? 996? Unless its a turbo/gt3 no thanks. I went from E36M3 to 996 and then 4 months later back into a E46 m3. S54 is so much better than the worthless boat anchor of a motor the M96 in the 996. Feels underpowered, squishy suspension. My 996 had 54K miles on it. My E46 M3 has 92K. Was less money, drives better, more comfortable.

Otherwise if its a 997.2 variant - yes do it.

Daywalker > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 10:15

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Good post. My recent progression (last 10 years) has been Dodge Stratus R/T Coupe => BMW 330ci ZHP => E46 M3 convertible.

Now with a young son, I could probably use a more practical car. The back seat of the E46 vert is tiny compared to the E46 coupe or sedan, and the seat doesn't flip way forward like the coupe. I'm struggling with what to do. My wife LOVES the car and insists we keep it forever. I have no problem with that. But if I get some kind of more practical car I still want it to be fun.

I've considered:

adding a 335i, VW CC, B7-B8 A4, B8 S4, E39 or E60 M5

Replacing the M3 with an E90 or F80 M3, CTS-V, or B7 RS4

And for no reason I have some 996 Turbos saved in My Autotrader

But, at the same time, when we need to bring our son around, we take my wife's vehicle and so far there has really not been a need to have a third car. Being a cheapskate, I hate the thought of paying the cost of a vehicle, insurance and registration for something that just sits around most of the time. And yet I'm not sure I want to DD any of the latter choices either. I love the E46 M3 as a DD.

I have no idea what to do. Anyone have suggestions? This is a fun game to play.

mikewballou > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 11:10

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I started with a J30 92 Maxima SE, 4DSC (4 door sports car), then went to an S13 89 240sx se hatch, then went to a Z32 300ZX Twin Turbo... I feel that was a pretty natural progression. I now am a family guy with an 03 Altima 2.5s and a 97 Maxima GXE 5 spd. I love my Maxima. I miss my 300zx but couldn't get any kids to stay firmly in the hatch.

marcinmk > MykePagan 04/17/2014 at 11:18

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I think 3rd stage still has some good examples that can be purchased that are performance oriented but family friendly. Pontiac G8 GT, used M45/GS450/G37/TL-S, used 545/E500/A6. It just depends on your budget and what you're looking for. I'd rather get an older performance oriented family car than a new boring family car.

TomMetcalf > alexotics 04/17/2014 at 11:32

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Ha. We have roughly the same progression (except that I am only on stage 2). After a couple beaters, I had a lifted Jeep Cherokee. When that died I got another Jeep ('75 CJ5) and a VW GLI. Next car will probably be a used Toyobaru.

RightFootDown > meatatarian 04/17/2014 at 12:14

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Neal, we'll keep you in mind if for no other reason than upcoming projects.

RightFootDown > TehRuben 04/17/2014 at 12:15

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By not actually living in DC.

RightFootDown > Andrew Daisuke 04/17/2014 at 12:17

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Or simply increasing power to weight ratio? Can't be going from 300hp&3300lbs to 400hp&4200lbs.

RightFootDown > thegrover 04/17/2014 at 12:21

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That's an impressive list!

Mel Silva > BKRM3 04/17/2014 at 12:27

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Following a similar pattern, a buddy of mine sent me the link directly to your comment because it reminded him of me. I went from a '80's Corolla (College), to an '88 5.0 Mustang. Spent years modifying, (Griggs Racing Suspension, etc.) doing 6-8 track weekends/year and then got married and moved halfway across the country from California to Texas. After a couple of months in consulting realized I probably needed something more "presentable" and dumped the 'stang for an E36 M3/4. I kept the E36 for 7 years until the car-seat wouldn't fit comfortably in the M3 anymore and I got tired of trying to put plywood in a BMW. In '07, made a big (practical) change, sold the M3 and bought a Tundra (aka Queen Mary). Now, both of our cars a paid for, the kid isn't in a car-seat anymore and I'm looking at 997.1 911's too. Trying to keep my budget at less than $60k and running into the same things you mentioned above. I don't even look at 991's unless they are "S" or "4S" for the same reasons you mentioned and have budgeted in the mObridge Bluetooth fiber-optic kit which add ~$700 to the issue. Makes me feel better that I've got company in this boat.

BKRM3 > Mel Silva 04/17/2014 at 13:22

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Haha what an encouraging story! I'm almost certain I'm going to buy a truck for this winter (sick of the M getting beat up on these terrible PA roads) but do need to keep something "nicer" around for work. The M is going to see 6 track weekends this summer (one down, five to go) and I'm confident it won't complain. I'm on the other side of marriage from you though, having bought the BMW before the woman (although that's probably getting closer by the day).

My 997.1 C2S "must have" list was 6MT, Terracotta interior, adaptive sport seats, sport chrono package and Porsche sport exhaust (although now I realize I could just buy an exhaust from AWE and have it sound equally awesome). Researched the mObridge and knew exactly what I'd need. I looked for 6 months without finding anything. Finally, I found one in Ohio in my price range and was arranging travel to go buy it and my E90 M3 popped up for sale in DC (only a 3 hour drive)...bought it pretty much the same day it was listed. I've never regretted the choice, but I'm 100% confident a 911 is still in my future, just like you!

Btw love the progression from the 80s Corolla you had in college. My first car was a Chevy Beretta, followed by an 02 grand prix, an 07 335i and now my M. If that right there doesn't show that at least a bit of the American dream is still alive, I don't know what does. =)

Addy > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 14:22

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I agree 100% that there's going to be "progression" in performance car ownership. As age and finances progress, so does taste. I worked at an auto parts store in the early 2000's, right at the height of the "Fast & Furious" fads. At that time, my dream car was a Subaru WRX. After I moved on from that job, and began to climb the corporate ladder, I was finally able to afford my WRX. I kept that car for about 4 years, until I decided I wanted a convertible. So I traded out to a Mercedes SLK 350, with a 6MT. However, that wasn't really practical enough for everyday usage, and I ended up getting rid of it about a year and a half later. Fast forward a couple years, and there's a Honda S2000 in the garage for weekends and day trips. I ended up trading that for a pickup because I was hardly driving it. Right now, my DD is a Mercedes C63 that I've had for just over a year. I've got a track day scheduled in May that I'm looking forward to. Next up on my hit list? Audi R8 V10.

Manuél Ferrari > BKRM3 04/17/2014 at 15:28

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I should have never seen the Scuderia in person and sat in it. Now I want one too bad.

I just love the ultimate versions of sports cars. I wish the base version was the ultimate version considering how much some cars cost. But that wish isn't going to happen so I still love the ultimate versions for what they are.

The E92 M3 GTS, GT3 RS, F430 Scuderia, C7 Z06, 458 Speciale. They are all badass. We all have to own the ultimate version of a cool sports car one day.

wkiernan > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 16:40

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Sure! Ask Chris Harris. Start with a Porsche 911. Then move on to a Ferrari 599. Then, finally, arrive at the pinnacle, the Citroën 2CV.

getiton > Daywalker 04/17/2014 at 17:47

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E39 M5, you already know that generation of BMW engineering.

ZensOwn > RightFootDown 04/17/2014 at 18:45

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been there too- I got the 911, but immediately missed the E46. As time goes on though I love the 911 more and more. Its not as universally excellent at everything (size-wise) but it feels excellent and is more fun at the track (for me).

Daywalker > getiton 04/17/2014 at 22:03

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very, very tempting. I could continue to dd the M3 and keep the M5 in garage queen status. E39 interior beginning to look dated but I could deal with it in exchange for perhaps the best sport sedan ever built.

SumthinWitty > RightFootDown 04/18/2014 at 10:59

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I found this write up intriguing... I certainly agree, I feel as if there is a "natural progression" with owning sports cars. I drooled over a Honda S2000 ever since I was 12 (26 now), however felt like it would be all wrong if I didn't have experience with something performance oriented but less potent first.. My first car when I was 15 was a 1st gen eclipse awd/turbo model...and so were my following 2 cars... Then an SLK, then finally my S2000, a 2.0t genesis coupe and then a 3.8 genesis coupe(both 13's), next I am thinking an E46M3 or Cayman S... Then hopefully a big boy ride! lol Like you I tend to keep my cars about a year or two learning about their pros/cons and experiencing their limits, then move on to the next one....hoping to someday find the one I simply wont be able to part with! ...hasn't happened yet though =p Living in PA I attend events at Beaver Run frequently, but was curious if you feel like its worth travelling the extra distance to go to Summit Point or Virginia? I am very interested in getting my foot in the door to pursue a career in the auto industry....working at a Honda dealership just isn't cutting the cake. Any info would be much appreciated!

SumthinWitty > SumthinWitty 04/18/2014 at 11:21

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SumthinWitty > SumthinWitty 04/18/2014 at 11:23

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Oops, forgot my Si sedan =p

Mel Silva > BKRM3 04/18/2014 at 12:30

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Another option for the exhaust that is highly recommended on Rennlist is the Fister Exhaust http://fdmotorsports.net/fister-exhaust… sort of an exchange program that gets you the PSE (sport exhaust) in sport mode all the time.

BKRM3 > Mel Silva 04/18/2014 at 14:12

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very cool!

MykePagan > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/21/2014 at 14:43

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re: "Brit relic" - you will note that I currently own a British car

The ability to improve a fixer-upper drastically improves your ability to drive a cooler car, especially in the early stages.

MykePagan > thejensen 04/21/2014 at 14:48

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re: "nocreation" - One of my best friends, who I have known since college, has gone the nocreation route. We were born one month apart, have lived parallel lives (in fact, I *know* I make a fair amount more $$ than he does). *HE* drives a supercar and commutes in two other cars that would qualify for many other guy's once-in-a-lifetime special car. And he borrows his nephew whenever he wants to feel all family-like :-) Best of both worlds.

MykePagan > marcinmk 04/21/2014 at 14:49

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Absolutely agree. You can play this "stages" game multiple ways depending on what kind of car most suits you, and it doesn't have to be super-expensive.